PWI 500 2006 Discussion Thread

[snotsnit]

Cena is number 1 on the list and he beat Samoa Joe for the number one spot!
Oy, the world is coming to an end.

[deadprezuk]

It doesn't surprise me at all. Its a kayfabe magazine, and in terms of kayfabe I can understand why Cena would be number one. I mean Batista was number one on it last year and former number ones include Hulk Hogan and Kevin Nash so you know it isn't judged on pure wrestling ability.

[Heath Scumm]

F*** That! I thought Samoa Joe was supposed 2 be wrestler of the year! Well, you can't win them all ...

Do you have the whole top?

[snotsnit]

No I don't

[Big Sexy]

Kevin Nash is number one in my hearth :P

[deadprezuk]

^^^I never really liked Nash but since his complete ownage of the TNA booking team recently I think he's the man. He came in saying he was gonna put Sabin over, put himself over and left. Brilliant!

[Heath Scumm]

Yes! Nash just made a fool of the X-Division, he had some funny skits but the only person he truly put over was himself and maybe Alex Shelley ...

I don't get how ProWrestling Illustrated could give Cena the wrestler of the year award since he did nothing remarcable this year ... In my oppinion, 2005 could have been Cena's year but this year must have been Edge's year without a shadow of a doubt ... also, Samoa Joe and American Dragon were both top contenders for this award in my oppinion!

[deadprezuk]

PWI is more or less a kayfabe magazine, and in terms of kayfabe Cena is the biggest thing in the industry this year. Fact is he sells more merchandise than Joe, Danielson, Edge put together. Has main evented Wrestlemania and beaten Triple H in the process, more than once. Whether he is booed by some of the audience and cheered by the rest, put those together he has the biggest reactions week in week out. He works a tougher schedule than any other wrestler and works damn hard , like him or not, in the ring IMO.

If it was done without the kayfabe much like Wrestling Observer does then it would go to Joe or Danielson easy.

[cutuma]

Yup. PWI is indeed a kayfabe magazine so you can't really blame them. Not even Edge, who indeed had a great year cannot top Cena. Plus, i can't remember the last time they gave #1 to a heel. Cena's now the best ticket / toy / t-shirt seller of the industry so it's natural he gets the top spot. Even though we all know how much Joe deserves this.

[Heath Scumm]

Well, then they should give the title to the number 1 Merchandise seller instead of the Wrestler Of The Year award ...

Why do I say Edge is the wrestler of the year?

While Cena was always on top this year, he had lots of people who actually were pushed and did a great job at it ... two of them being Edge and RVD ... I do not really like Edge as a wrestler nor as a character but you must admit that this year he went from midcard status straight to the Number 1 Heel in the Industry ... he is hated nowadays as much as Triple H was hated the previous 2 years and that says a lot about him ...

@Decret
2003 was HHH's year so they actually give this title to heels to!

[deadprezuk]

^^^Edge is knowhere near Triple H level when it comes to heel heat. Granted Edge has come a long long way, but the fact is that he was treated like a transistional champion prior to Wrestlemania, and when he finally got the title back it wasn't through Cena, it was through RVD. Cena has had a far better year in the WWE than Edge has and the only reason Edge has been able to gain this heat in the first place was because of Lita. Trust me, take Lita away from Edge, he has nothing to fall back on. Lita is one of the main reasons he finally got to where he is now, prior to that he was another generic heel.

[Heath Scumm]

Okay ... this is one of the most amazing things I have seen ... A lot of smart fans from www.obsessedwithwrestling.com, offended by PWI Top 500 results decided they should say a sweet "F$#^ You!" to PWI and make their own smart mark 2006 Top 100 Wrestler Of The Year thing ...

This is going to last for a while but using a scoring system, they have reached the Top 5 ... the discussions are quite vivid and as long as the Top develops, I'm going to post it here as well ...

1. Samoa Joe
2. Bryan Danielson
3. Edge
4. Rey Mysterio Jr.
5. Jun Akiyama

As you can see, the Top 3 were also my picks! This contest continues here - http://www.visuex.com/oww/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1970&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=15&sid=d033ed106f9c5076f48b019849d073c0

[deadprezuk]

The smarks aren't all that smart now are they. I mean they should no by now that the PWI 500 has been and will always be a kayfabe poll.

Though I agree with the top 4 being there, I wouldn't have Akiyama. Sure he's had a good year but his title run wasn't that impressive.

[Heath Scumm]

Well, they know that PWI is a kayfabe poll but that didn't stop them from being unhappy!

I do believe Akiyama was the number 1 wrestler in Japan last year totally owning NOAH during the fall of 2005 ... I would also throw KENTA and Marufuji in the mix but none of them were near Akiyama!

[deadprezuk]

^^^ I totally disagree, he had 2 title defenses in 8 months. The one against Suzuki was just weird and the one against Inoue was tens times better than Inoue usually gives but was nothing to write home about. C'mon, 2 defenses in 8 months and both be flops...and then drop it to a Junior, that isn't a good year at all.

Marufuji and KENTA both had better years than Akiyama did. In fact Misawa, Morishima, Kojima and Kea all had better years than Akiyama.

[Heath Scumm]

Well, it was their choice, if it were up to me, there wouldn't be a japanese wrestler in Top 10 except maybe KENTA since the Top is made between August of 2005 and August of 2006 ...

But that's just me and the other wrestling fans have spoken ...

[deadprezuk]

Those fans are just marks for wrestlers that they like. They refuse to look at things objectively. If they were to really look at it from an unbias point of view and look at what really makes a good wrestler then it would be a completely different list.

This is how I look at it: Joe yes, Danielson hell yes, Edge yes, Mysterio yes.

A guy like Marufuji would be in there simply down to his workrate over the past year. He has worked his ass off like knowone else in Japan which is why he got over, because Japanese fans are smart enough to see when a guy works his ass off for them and it doesn't surprise me that he finally got the strap put on him. KENTA would have a shot but he's too much like Low Ki, aka doesn't like selling for anyone and if he does, he isn't too convincing, hence a bad worker. He has skill and finesse but if you don't like looking bad then you can never look that good. Also by saying you wouldn't have any Japanese worker in that top 10 just makes me think that you don't really follow the Japanese wrestling scene that much if at all, otherwise you would know that these workers have been some of the best in the world when it comes to pure wrestling.

Also glad to Finlay see up there. Since he came back to a full time wrestling role he has put most young workers in the WWE and most of the American wrestling industry to shame. The guys 50 years old and works harder than most guys half his age. Same can be said for Regal. Just look at what they have done for Lashley. If it weren't for these two Lashley wouldn't be as over as he is thats for sure. And from what I've read Batista is due for a feud with Finlay which is gonna do him wonders because his comeback has been a big disapointment so far.

Can't believe Jack Evans is even considered. I'll admit the guy does some amazing things but the only reason I like seeing him in the ring is when he's getting his ass kicked about, otherwise forget it.

Same with Christian, this guy is so overrated its unbelievable. His NWA title reign was a joke and I was actually happy to see the belt go back to Jarrett.

Rhino should be higher. His work with TNA is some of his best in the last 2 years.

RVD - see Christian only trade NWA for WWE and Jarrett for Edge.

Nigel McGuiness should be higher, he made the pure title mean something in ROH and brought a bit of colour to the precedings.

Other than that as it stands the list is fine.

[Big Sexy]

Also glad to Finlay see up there. Since he came back to a full time wrestling role he has put most young workers in the WWE and most of the American wrestling industry to shame. The guys 50 years old and works harder than most guys half his age. Same can be said for Regal. Just look at what they have done for Lashley. If it weren't for these two Lashley wouldn't be as over as he is thats for sure. And from what I've read Batista is due for a feud with Finlay which is gonna do him wonders because his comeback has been a big disapointment so far.

finnaly someone that sees things my way1 I was not impressed with the Finlay debut but after the first two weeks i was wow, this guy gives his soul in the ring and you can feel it. It is obvious why he is considered one of the best trainers in the bussiness. He is the complete wrestler without a doubt even after all these years. He does not need to talk much, he dominates just by his presence and inring skills. An William, god, William shines now like he did in his youth. This King Booker storyline worked wonders in Smackdown since it is a true focus point for the show

About the japanese players i have to say that i watch only old AWA matches so i have no clue what is going there these days. I have seen some on youtube and those guys are all inring psichology ... nothing else ... is not my stile even if it proves entertraining for a while.

[deadprezuk]

On youtube it is very limited and it doesn't even begin to touch upon Japanese wrestling. Its good for old school but for modern day it isn't all that.

If your looking for spotfests but with an extremely high and I mean real real high workrate, then Dragon Gate would be a good start. These guys do things that are just amazing and really put guys in America who are considered great athletes to shame.

If your looking for great pyschology with athleticism and drama I would reccomend All Japan and NOAH, moreso NOAH as it actually gives Juniors a chance to shine against heavyweights which you don't really get anywhere else. But All Japan has some greta gimmicks and fantastic comedy matches with guys like Ebetaro.

Also New Japan is always a good one to start with. Good heavyweights, good juniors, stiff and strong matches and some good shoot style mixed in. Same can be said for Zero 1 and Hustle.

[deadprezuk]

Don't know where to put this but since we were discussing Finlay and how good a worker he is I thought I'd put it here.

Finlay: The Wrestler’s Wrestler
May 26, 2006 by Langdon Beck


“I would take a thousand piledrivers from Finlay over one snapmare from some workers.” – Lance Storm

That statement neatly sums up the general opinion of Finlay among his fellow wrestlers. Put simply, he is one of the most respected and admired men in wrestling today. As well as Storm, William Regal, Steve Corino, Bobby Heenan, Colt Cabana, Chris Benoit, Terry Funk, Bam Bam Bigelow, Bret Hart, Vito, Vader, Mike Tenay, Harry Smith, Antonio Thomas, Robbie Brookside, Drew McDonald, Tony St. Clair and Doug Williams are all in awe of him. Regal is not alone when he says, “I’ve been lucky enough to wrestle a lot of great opponents over the years. For me, the absolute best was Fit Finlay.” Many fans also respect the hell out of Finlay, yet there are some, even on the internet, who don’t seem to recognize his ability.



With his father being a wrestling promoter in Ireland, Finlay got his start in wrestling early, working in his father’s promotion from an early age before moving to the British mainland in 1978. There, he was trained by Ted Betley (who also trained Dynamite Kid and Davey Boy Smith) and wrestled for Joint Promotions. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, British wrestling was a hotbed for outstanding talent, even if many of the most skilled wrestlers were, and are, not globally well-known. Finlay joined the likes of Dynamite, Marc ‘Rollerball’ Rocco, the original ‘Master Of 1,000 Holds’ Johnny Saint, Steve Grey and Marty Jones, and soon began to establish himself as hated Irishman who could back up his threats with his actions, thanks in part to his manager (and then-wife) Princess Paula, a glamorous ringside presence not often seen in European wrestling. In his book, William Regal remembered this time period. “There were so many amazing guys… to watch and learn from… They all did extremely believable-looking wrestling, just the style I liked. Whenever they went at it in the ring it was as real as wrestling ever got because they’d knock the hell out of each other. They used to work so hard and when they came out of the ring, drenched in sweat, it looked like they’d had a real battle. They used great psychology too... Fit Finlay was one of my earliest heroes.”

It was in Joint Promotions that Finlay won his first title, when he won the British Heavy Middleweight belt in June 1982. He lost the title soon after, but won it back three times over the course of the year, and became a five-time holder of the championship in September 1987, holding it until July of 1989 when he was beaten by one of his major rivals, the great Danny Boy Collins. The two clashed numerous times in brutal battles over two decades, including in chain matches, and their feud was one of the defining rivalries of the era. Collins later said that there was no wrestler he admired more than Finlay, and independent wrestling superstar Colt Cabana says, “[what] really made Finlay for me were the matches with Danny Boy Collins. It was a great story of the mean Irishman versus the fresh young wrestling kid from England.”

Finlay also became a two-time Joint Promotions Light Heavyweight champion, beating British legend Ringo Rigby in a tournament final for his first reign, before losing the title to Marty Jones. Finlay would win the belt back, however, and it was as a result of these title wins, and other accomplishments such as victory in a 1982 tag team tournament that helped Dave ‘Fit’ Finlay to become a recognizable star on ITV’s ‘World Of Sport’ television show.

When Colt Cabana moved to Europe for three months in 2004, he fell in love with the European style of wrestling. In addition to enjoying the matches of Johnny Saint, Steve Grey, and others, two men caught his eye: one was Rollerball Rocco, and the other was Finlay.” “Every match I saw and have seen,” says Cabana, “he was the most intense man in the ring. He seemed to be in there for one reason and that was to win. The man had so much energy and on top of being a bruiser, was always the best wrestling technician.”

It soon became clear that Fit was one of the top heels in the country – only the great villains such as Rocco or Jim Breaks, and now Finlay, could provoke the old women sitting at ringside to the degree that they would not only harangue the heels mercilessly, but would approach the ring and attack them with handbags, hat pins or cigarettes. This particular aspect of British wrestling was explored by the BBC in a 1984 edition of ‘London Plus’. The show featured a fan, Esme Osbourne, explaining the appeal of wrestling, and went on to show her verbally abusing Finlay (and of course Princess Paula) from ringside during a match with ‘Iron Fist’ Clive Myers.

Finlay’s versatility was apparent from the get-go, as he adapted his style to accommodate his opponent, and was often seen in tag team matches, teaming with Skull Murphy as the Riot Squad, or partnering fellow Irish scoundrel, the late Rocky Moran. Finlay & Moran’s matches, such as their 1984 encounter with Ross and Owen Hart, were always of a high quality, but it was in singles competition that Finlay really excelled. Says Colt Cabana: “I recall seeing a match of his when he was probably 18 years old, wrestling a 16-year-old Davey Boy Smith. It was such a great match. I remember thinking, of course it's a great match, it's Finlay and Davey Boy. Then you must sit back and remember these guys were just kids. They were kids who, at the time, were already five times better than most.” In All Star, he defeated Marty Jones for the World Mid-Heavyweight Championship, and went on to hold that title twice more, beating Jones again for his third reign in 1984. As well as competing for titles, the two met in several highly competitive and classic grudge matches over the years.

Over the course of the 1980s, Finlay wrestled many of Britain’s top stars before reaching the peak of his career to date, winning the British Heavyweight Title from nemesis Tony St. Clair in February 1990. In a recent column for a British wrestling website, St. Clair remembered, “by that time, Fit had developed into what I can only describe as the most talented pro wrestler I have ever met. He has everything; timing, agility, ring craft and most of all the ability to lead a match.” It would be more than a year before he lost the prestigious championship to current Deep South Wrestling trainer Dave Taylor. Around this time, Fit began to wrestle for the Catch Wrestling Association based in Germany, teaming with old rival Marty Jones to win the CWA Tag Team titles from St. Clair and Miles Zrno. After losing the British title, the CWA was where Fit focused most of his attention, although his ongoing rivalry with Taylor kept people coming to All Star shows long after wrestling was axed from British television.

Jones and Finlay lost the CWA tag titles to Zrno and Franz Schumann before the end of 1990, giving Finlay the opportunity to pursue a singles career – although he did win the titles again, partnering a young John Hawk (better known today as John Bradshaw Layfield). Finlay and Schumann embarked on a rivalry, trading the CWA Middleweight Championship back and forth in tremendous matches such as Finlay’s speciality, the Irish Street Fight, combining mat wrestling, brawling, flying, and doing it all well. Both men were prepared to take a major beating in order to produce the best match possible. Finlay would win the Middleweight title three times in total, defeating Steven Wright (father of Alex) and Eddie Gilbert for his second and third reigns respectively. In addition to this, Fit continued his feud with Tony St. Clair, faced up-and-comers like Ulf Herman and Lance Storm (who beat Fit in a Street Fight Cage Match), and won several other CWA titles, taking his career total to sixteen.

By the time Finlay reached CWA, he had already perfected the art of making every one of his opponents look great. On his website, Lance Storm says, “I remember one match in Europe, I worked with Finlay; he beat me clean in the second round (record time) and he managed to make me look like a million dollars. It’s not always the result, it’s how you go about it.” Finlay is one wrestler who knows how to go about it. Storm continues, “Fit is likely the most talented man I have ever been in a ring with… I had maybe 50 matches with Fit and I learned so much about being a heel working with him. His professionalism and attention to detail is the standard I try to hold myself to.”

Finlay’s feud with Tony St. Clair spanned more than a decade. During the early 1990s, events featuring a Finlay - St. Clair match were almost always guaranteed to sell out. As well as regular matches, they fought in Street Fights, Chain Matches and Ladder Matches, and beat the hell out of each other every time. “That was what the people wanted to see and that is what they got,” said St. Clair. “We both felt we would be short changing the crowd if we didn’t [hit as hard as we could]. Sometimes I could hardly get out of bed the next morning, my body ached so much… I don’t know who won or lost the most matches but it didn’t matter – it’s not winning or losing that makes you a star, it’s the quality of your work.” Their final match, an Irish Street Fight, marked St. Clair’s retirement from full time wrestling. At the time, Finlay was still recovering from an almost crippling leg injury suffered in WCW. Finlay got the win and left without shaking Tony’s hand (after all, they’d never shaken hands before, why start?). St. Clair got a microphone to thank the fans and say goodbye, but Fit came back out. St. Clair recalls, “[Fit] took the mike from me. ‘St. Clair, nobody ever hit me back like you did, now it’s over, good luck ´. I was genuinely shocked as he offered me his hand and we hugged each other as we fell, both crying, to the floor.”

The early 1990s also saw Finlay begin to gain worldwide exposure, competing mainly for New Japan Pro Wrestling. His most famous Japanese match was a tag team victory against Negro Casas and Eddy Guerrero, with Pegasus Kid (a.k.a Chris Benoit) as his partner, but he would compete with Guerrero again during Eddy’s time as Black Tiger, as well as with other junior heavyweight greats such as Shinjiro Ohtani. And in the middle of the decade, WCW came calling…

Using the name ‘Belfast Bruiser’, Finlay aimed to make an impact. He would have been there up to three years earlier if things had worked out differently. In 1993, WCW was looking for a new booker, and Terry Funk appeared to be the favourite for the job. When asked what he’d do if he became booker, Funk replied, “´First of all I’d get that tough son of a bitch Finlay on contract.” Sadly, Terry didn’t get the job.

Fit’s first major American match with William Regal at Uncensored 1996, although it ended in a DQ, was the one of the most brutal, hard-hitting match American audiences had ever seen. They were supposed to go to a thirty minute draw, but as Regal explains in his book, things didn’t go to plan. “We went out and got stuck into each other so much that Finlay hit me in the face with one punch which gave me twelve stitches over my eye, a broken nose and a fracture cheekbone. There was blood everywhere – and WCW still had a strong anti-blood policy.” The impromptu DQ came about when Regal’s associates, Bobby Eaton and Dave Taylor, were sent out to stop the carnage. “But the adrenaline was flowing through the Belfast Bruiser and he just attacked them... the match made a name for us both,” Regal said.

Their captivating feud ended with a ferocious Parking Lot Brawl on Nitro. Before the match, Finlay and Regal had asked which cars were gimmicked, and were told, “What do you mean, gimmicked?” Aside from one car with a loosened bumper, all they could do was run into things hard and break them. “We killed each other in that match,” Regal said later. “Fit’s head went through a side window, and there was nothing gimmicked about that. Glass was everywhere.... We hit each other as hard as we could, ground each other’s head into the concrete, slammed each other on cars and it ended when I gave Fit a piledriver on top of a car… It was amazing – I don’t know how we got away with it… For months later, Fit kept finding little fragments of glass under the skin on his legs and he’d have to pick it out.” Soon after, Finlay returned to the CWA, taking advantage of his increased exposure. He made his return to WCW (using the Fit Finlay name) in late 1997, picking up wins on Nitro against the likes of Dave Taylor and competing in the World War III Battle Royal.

It was another couple of months until Finlay would really make his mark on the organization again. In early 1998, he earned a shot at the Television Title. The champion at the time was Booker T., who was involved in a rivalry with Chris Benoit over the belt. On the May 4 episode of Nitro, Finlay got his title shot, and when Benoit came out to distract Booker during the match, Finlay hit a European-style Piledriver – also known as a Tombstone - to capitalize and win the championship. His first pay per view defence came against Benoit at Slamboree, and if you’ve seen any of their recent WWE matches, you can imagine how good it was. Thanks to a Booker T. distraction, Finlay retained the title, but now both Benoit and Booker were after him. It was decided that there would be a Best Of Seven Series between the two, with the winner getting a title match at the Great American Bash. Booker won the series, and regained the title from Finlay.

After his two-month reign as TV Champion ended, Fit returned to relative obscurity within WCW, wrestling Dean Malenko in excellent non-televised matches during the summer, and feuding with fellow Europeans Davey Boy Smith and Alex Wright. A short time later, Finlay made an impact once again, this time in WCW’s newly-created Hardcore Division. It made sense to have Finlay in the Hardcore Division, given that he was – and still is – one of the best brawlers in the world, but at the same time it was arguably wasting his technical wrestling skills. At the 1999 Bash At The Beach, he competed in the Hardcore Junkyard Invitational, facing well-known hardcore wrestlers like Public Enemy, Mikey Whipwreck, Hardcore Hak (a.k.a Sandman) and more, and with the assistance of former foes Regal and Dave Taylor, won the match and a trophy. However, the following Nitro, Jimmy Hart’s First Family stable stole the trophy, setting up a feud with the three Brits. Unfortunately, a freak accident during a match with the First Family’s Brian Knobbs put an end to the rivalry, and almost to Finlay’s career.

During this non-televised match, Knobbs sent Finlay through a table set up in the corner of the ring. At the time, WCW was making booking cuts, and this particular night had not brought any tables despite having scheduled a Hardcore Match. So they used the tables at the building, which were made out of Formica (a laminate plastic) rather than wood. The table shattered like glass on impact, ripping Fit’s leg open and slicing through all the major nerves just below the knee. Lance Storm says that Finlay “just sat quietly in a pool of blood holding his leg together until medical people arrived.” He came close to losing his leg, and doctors gave him a 50% chance of walking again. Even with an injury of this magnitude, Finlay did not take a single pain pill, nor did he lose hope. When St. Clair spoke to him several weeks after the accident, Finlay challenged him to one last match, saying “If my leg doesn’t get any better we’ll have to make it a Wheel Chair match.” A return to wrestling was highly unlikely, but in a show of true determination and courage, Finlay returned to the ring later that same year, viciously attacking Knobbs. He wore a hard metal cast for protection, and to this day still has a wound shaped like a shark bite and no feeling below the knee. “You’d never know it to see him, which just shows the sort of fellow he is. He’s never given into it,” as William Regal says.

If you’re still not convinced of just how tough Finlay is, let Lance Storm explain: “[Ken Shamrock] may be the most skilled fighter but skilled fighters don’t put you on the most dangerous list. Guys like [Haku], or Fit Finlay, are dangerous people... If I were in a fight with Ken I would no doubt lose, if I were in a fight with Fit, I likely wouldn't leave with the right amount of body parts. There is less danger in getting beat up than there is in getting beat to death.”

Finlay and Knobbs began to feud. Following a match at Starrcade also involving Norman Smiley and Meng (a.k.a Haku), and a short series of matches with the latter, Finlay and Knobbs formed a bond and joined forces to become the camouflage-wearing Hardcore Soldiers. Finlay returned to singles competition soon after, losing a memorable Falls Count Anywhere Match to Vampiro at Uncensored 2000. When Eric Bischoff and Vince Russo returned to power in WCW, they essentially forgot about Finlay and Knobbs, though the Soldiers did compete in a decent match against Terry Funk & Norman Smiley and Meng & Hugh Morrus. After this, however, Fit Finlay was practically ignored, competing only in the occasional hardcore match and on the Millennium Final pay per view.

Finlay left WCW and returned to Europe, occasionally wrestling old friends such as Robbie Brookside. Following WWE’s purchase of WCW, he was offered a job as a road agent, dispensing knowledge and advice to full-time wrestlers on the roster. Finlay, now effectively retired, accepted and was put in charge of WWE’s female wrestlers. Under his guidance, the Women’s Division flourished, with the amazing improvement of Trish Stratus in 2001, and her subsequent rivalries with Jazz, Victoria, and Molly Holly being among the best results of Fit’s training. Of course, Finlay can’t be given all the credit, as the incredibly hard-working ethic of the women themselves played a major part. But Trish, Torrie Wilson and several other Divas have mentioned Finlay as having a significant role in the rejuvenation of the division. In 2002, he, William Regal and Dave Taylor opened a wrestling school; before its closure in 2005 it produced wrestlers such as Chris Hero. Meanwhile, Fit continued his role as road agent, running tryouts for potential additions to the company and continuing to give advice to whoever wanted or needed it. Tank Toland (known in WWE as James Dick) credits Finlay as being someone who went out of his way to help him, and Antonio of the Heart Throbs says, “he's one of the best in the world, I learned so much from him during my time in WWE - you're always learning something new being around such a phenomenal worker.”

At the end of 2005, videos began airing on SmackDown! advertising Finlay’s return to the ring with a new, no-nonsense character; a man who loves to fight. And he’s had a lot of success with it, proving that you don’t need to be young, flashy or have an over-the-top personality to be noticed in wrestling as long as you have the talent. His return match against Matt Hardy showed a whole new generation of fans exactly why so many regard him so highly; showing little ring rust, and with his timing and execution as good as ever, Finlay stood out, and was a breath of fresh air. From his memorable obliteration of the Juniors to great matches (and post-match brawls and beatings) with Lashley, Chris Benoit, and various others, Finlay has been a consistent highlight in WWE during 2006. Former ECW, NWA, and AWA World Champion Steve Corino sums it up when he says, “I think he is the best thing on SmackDown right now.”

For over twenty five years Finlay has provided us with some of the most intense, hard-hitting, and just plain great wrestling matches that any fan could hope to see. His work from decades ago is as watchable now as ever. Says Corino, “I LOVE Fit Finlay's style! One of my favorites to watch. Colt Cabana showed me some of his stuff from the UK back in the early-mid 90's and it is unbelievable how good it is.” He’s the ultimate pro: tough as hell, charismatic, and staggeringly good in the ring, especially considering he has one leg that is dead from the knee down. It’s not for nothing that a European promoter once remarked that Finlay could get a match out of a rusty old bike frame. According to Colt Cabana, “whether it was against the lackluster Grasshopper or the outstanding Tony St. Clair, Fit Finlay was just a machine. 100 Miles per hour and a professional all the way through.” Finlay’s peers know it, and many fans know it too. With his continued presence every week on SmackDown, more and more will realize that Finlay’s one of the very best.

Special thanks to Antonio Thomas, Colt Cabana and Steve Corino for sharing their opinions with me.



I don't know about you but that kinda says it all. The amount of respect that this guy has from his fellow workers is incredible.

[Heath Scumm]

I've known him from his WCW days ... I can't say I dislike him but I sure as hell didn't like him after WCW put the Hardcore Title on him although they had better alternatives in Hardcore Hak or Mikey Whipwreck ... back then, I didn't know much about ECW but I knew that these 2 guys came from that Extreme fed and I simply loved them the first moment I saw them step foot in a WCW ring ... I will always remember Sandman entering the WCW ring all covered in Barb Wire beating the crap out of Knobs and Bam Bam Bigelow ...

I guess the love I had for former ECW athletes coming to WCW was to large for me to still appreciate Finlay ...

Nowadays, I'm in the same constant state of mind, not linking or disliking Finlay ... although I appreciate his achievements and definitely believe he's worthy of a Top 20 spot in PWI or any other Wrestler Of The Year top, he's just not a personal favourite of mine for several reasons!

[Dragon-sin]

Off the ROH Forums :

1 John Cena
2 Kurt Angle
3 Edge
4 Samoa Joe
5 Mistico
6 Rey Mysterio Jr.
7 Brock Lesnar
8 Kenta Kobashi
9 Shawn Michaels
10 Jeff Jarrett
11 Taiyo Kea
12 Christian Cage
13 AJ Styles
14 Satoshi Kojima
15 Christopher Daniels
16 Bryan Danielson
17 Perro Aguayo Jr.
18 Rob Van Dam
19 King Booker
20 Jun Akiyama
21 Triple H
22 Ultimo Guerrero
23 Batista
24 Ric Flair
25 Kensuke Sasaki
26 Sting
27 Carlito
28 Dr. Wagner Jr.
29 Chris Benoit
30 Randy Orton
31 Tiger Mask IV
32 El Hijo Del Santo
33 Hiroyoshi Tenzan
34 Atlantis
35 CM Punk
36 KENTA
37 Shelton Benjamin
38 Abyss
39 Rey Bucanero
40 Jushin Liger
41 Mark Henry
42 Rhino
43 Hiroshi Tanahashi
44 Big Show
45 Dos Caras Jr
46 Chris Harris
47 Nigel McGuinness
48 Averno
49 Katsuhiko Nakajima
50 Kane
51 Bobby Lashley
52 Keiji Muto
53 James Storm
54 Mephisto
55 Kaz Hayashi
56 CIMA
57 Naomichi Marufuji
58 Black Warrior
59 Undertaker
60 Takeshi Rikio
61 Austin Aries
62 Hector Garza
63 Roderick Strong
64 John Bradshaw Layfield
65 Tarzan Boy
66 Masa Chono
67 Colt Cabana
68 Genichiro Tenryu
69 Doug Williams
70 Shocker
71 Milano Collection A.T.
72 Johnny Nitro
73 Brother Devon
74 Tokyo Magnum
75 L.A. Park
76 Brother Ray
77 Minoru Suzuki
78 Olimpico
79 Ikuto Jidaka
80 Brent Albright
81 Minoru Fujita
82 Negro Casas
83 Toshiaki Kawada
84 Mr. Aguila
85 Takeshi Morishima
86 Petey Williams
87 Paul London
88 Mitsuharu Misawa
89 Halloween
90 Matt Hardy
91 Akira Taue
92 Sabu
93 Damian 666
94 Monty Brown
95 Ultimo Dragon
96 Maximo
97 Takashi Sugiura
98 Umaga
99 Adam Pearce
100 Masato Tanaka
101 Matt Sydal
102 Kip James
103 Texano Jr.
104 Genki Horiguchi
105 B.G. James
106 Dragon Kid
107 Chris Sabin
108 Shinjiro Otani
109 Cibernetico
110 Minoru Tanaka
111 Finlay
112 Yuji Nagata
113 Jack Evans
114 Universo 2000
115 Akebono
116 Elix Skipper
117 Yoshihiro Tajiri
118 Seth Skyfire
119 Super Crazy
120 Yoshinobu Kanemaru
121 Gedo
122 D-Lo Brown
123 William Regal
124 La Parka
125 Taka Michinoku
126 Kenny Doane
127 Chris Hero
128 Vampiro
129 Razor Ramon H.G.
130 Shinsuki Nakamura
131 Giant Bernard
132 Ron Killings
133 La Mascara
134 Nicky Nemeth
135 Chet The Jet
136 Chase Stevens
137 Oriental
138 Charlie Haas
139 Juventud Guerrera
140 Mike Knox
141 Mikey Mondo
142 Senshi/Low-Ki
143 Andy Douglas
144 The Great Khali
145 Davey Richards
146 Koji Kanemoto
147 Johnny Jeter
148 Brian Kendrick
149 Sangre Azteca
150 The Sandman
151 Scott Steiner
152 Zorro
153 Gregory Helms
154 Manabu Nakanishi
155 Nunzio
156 Felino
157 Dr. X
158 Viscera
159 Homicide
160 Jado
161 Elijah Burke
162 Psicosis
163 C.W. Anderson
164 Eugene
165 Bobby Roode
166 Matt Striker
167 Aaron Stevens
168 Robbie McAllister
169 Konnan
170 Jay Lethal
171 Justin Credible
172 Eric Young
173 Nitro
174 Mike Mizanin
175 Tommy Dreamer
176 Rory McAllister
177 Jody Fleisch
178 Tony Mamaluke
179 Sonjay Dutt
180 Heavy Metal
181 Black Tiger IV/Rocky Romero
182 Orlando Jordan
183 Val Venis
184 Al Snow
185 Kikutaro
186 Charly Manson
187 Chavo Guerrero Jr.
188 Taiji Ishimori
189 Misterioso II
190 Kenzo Suzuki
191 Trevor Murdoch
192 Volador Jr.
193 Ares
194 Tatsuhito Takaiwa
195 Scorpio
196 Jinsei Shinzaki
197 Rob Conway
198 Ryo Saito
199 El Terrible
200 Osamu Nishimura
201 Nick Mitchell
202 Balls Mahoney
203 Blue Panther
204 Ken Kennedy
205 Bull Buchanan
206 Don Fuji
207 Joey Mercury
208 Dick Togo
209 Hooligan
210 Mikami
211 Claudio Castagnoli
212 Lizmark Jr.
213 Super Dragon
214 Silver King
215 Jonny Storm
216 Gene Snitsky
217 Kohei Suwama
218 B.J. Whitmer
219 Chris Masters
220 Mr. Niebla
221 Brother Runt
222 Kohei Sato
223 Vito
224 El Canek
225 Shark Boy
226 Electro Shock
227 Sal Rinauro
228 Kid Kash
229 Brazo De Plata
230 Ricky Marvin
231 Jamie Noble
232 Takao Omori
233 Raven
234 Roadkill
235 Lance Cade
236 Antifaz Del Norte
237 Kudo
238 El Dandy
239 El Samurai
240 Mascara Sagrada
241 Masao Inoue
242 Gordon XXX
243 Hirooki Goto
244 Virus
245 Mohammed Yone
246 Jimmy Yang
247 Paul Birchall
248 Alex Shelley
249 Tamon Honda
250 Super Delfin
251 Stevie Richards
252 Sho Funaki
253 Test
254 Naruki Doi
255 Ricky Reyes
256 El Sagrado
257 Takuma Sano
258 Tatanka
259 The Boogieman
260 Masaaki Mochizuki
261 Jimmy Jacobs
262 David Young
263 Romeo Roselli
264 Steve Corino
265 Arik Cannon
266 Mick Foley
267 Yutaka Yoshie
268 Danny Doring
269 Arkangel De La Muerte
270 Masato Yoshino
271 Kevin Nash
272 NOSAWA
273 Chad Collyer
274 Tiger Mask I
275 Harry Smith
276 Lance Hoyt
277 Mazada
278 A-1
279 Ace Steel
280 Hombre Sin Nombre
281 Scotty 2 Hotty
282 Yoshinara Ogawa
283 Chris Cage
284 Machete
285 Johnny Parisi
286 Ryouji Sai
287 Tank Toland
288 Joey Ryan
289 Mike Quackenbush
290 Chad Toland
291 Ruckus
292 Great Sasuke
293 Shad Gaspar
294 El Generico
295 Delirious
296 Matt Bentley
297 Akira
298 Simon Diamond
299 Necro Butcher
300 El Angel
301 Jake Gymini
302 Sterling James Keenan
303 Tony Kozina
304 M-Dogg 20
305 Arch Kincaid
306 Miyawaki
307 Alebrije
308 Jesse Gymini
309 Kevin Matthews
310 Derrick Neikirk
311 Antonio Thomas
312 Sylvan Grenier
313 Eddie Colon
314 Tyson Dux
315 Octagon
316 Cody Hawk
317 Hallowicked
318 Toru Owashi
319 Jimmy Rave
320 Tony Santareli
321 Milano Collection A.T.
322 Simon Dean
323 Mike Taylor
324 Scott Lost
325 Intocable
326 Shinjitsu Nohashi
327 Mark Briscoe
328 Chris Bosh
329 Shane Storm
330 Jay Briscoe
331 Alan Stone
332 Johnny Devine
333 Lash LeRoux
334 Excalibur
335 Ryan Reeves
336 Larry Sweeney
337 Fuerza Guerrera
338 Suwa
339 Dice Domino
340 B-Boy
341 Fergal Devitt
342 Kevin Steen
343 Shannon Moore
344 Human Tornado
345 Zumbido
346 Julio Deniro
347 Puma/TJ Perkins
348 Prince Nana
349 Ray Gordy
350 Jigsaw
351 Mr. Mexico
352 Shuji Kondo
353 Cassidy Riley
354 Bradley Jay
355 Tigre Blanco
356 Katsushi Takemura
357 Icarus
358 Mac Daddy Johnson
359 Emil Sitochi
360 Tony Rivera
361 Naofumi Yamamoto
362 Gran Akuma
363 Tigre Metalico
364 Scorpio Sky
365 Spud
366 Gran Hamada
367 Niles Young
368 Antonio Banks
369 Kennichiro Arai
370 Steve Douglas
371 Joker
372 Men’s Teioh
373 Quicksilver
374 Josh Daniels
375 Eddie Kingston
376 Blue Demon Jr.
377 Jack Crist
378 Mikey Batts
379 Sonny Siaki
380 Amigo Suzuki
381 Rene Dupree
382 Abismo Negro
383 David Crist
384 Jack Bull
385 Skayde
386 Eric Perez
387 Maxime Boyer
388 Chessman
389 Freakin’ Deacon
390 Turbo
391 Danny Gimondo
392 Sabian
393 Shane Matthews
394 Pantera
395 Shigeo Okumura
396 Deuce Shade
397 Jagged
398 Matt Styker
399 Derek Frazier
400 Ryuji Ito
401 Vries Kastelein
402 Sexxxy Eddie
403 Yoshiaki Yago
404 Danny Daniels
405 Nick Gage
406 Scorpio Jr.
407 Travis Tomko
408 Tasutoshi Goto
409 Tracey Smothers
410 Matt Morgan
411 Norman Smiley
412 Frankie Kazarian
413 Billy Maverick
414 Andre Lyonz
415 Justice Pain
416 Trent Acid
417 Extreme Tiger
418 Adam Flash
419 John McChesney
420 Bryan Logan
421 Teddy Hart
422 Conrad Kennedy III
423 Ric Converse
424 Dos Caras
425 Bolen
426 Riki Choshu
427 Equinox
428 Chaz
429 Tengkwa
430 Nick Berk
431 Rodney Mack
432 Darren Burridge
433 Black Thunder
434 Crossbones
435 Francisco Ciatso
436 Josh Abercrombie
437 Joey Knight
438 Freak Nasty
439 Darin Corbin
440 Xavier
441 Crazy Boy
442 Kahagas
443 Ryan Cruz
444 Troy Lords
445 Andrew Dalton
446 Eric Everlast
447 Jon Moxley
448 Andy Boy Simmonz
449 Lance Steel
450 Chasyn Rance
451 Shirley Doe
452 Bruiser
453 Robin Knightwing
454 Frank Parker
455 Nate Mattson
456 Mike Kruel
457 Quinn Magnum
458 Sinn
459 Mickey Gambino
460 Jarrelle Clark
461 The Stro
462 Marshall Gambino
463 Pepper Parks
464 Cheech
465 Stronko
466 Jason Static
467 Preston Quinn
468 Glenn Spectre
469 Tony Givens
470 Darin Childs
471 Beau James
472 Don Paysan
473 Roughhouse O’Reilly
474 Dennis Gregory
475 Brian Ash
476 Cloudy
477 Billy Bart
478 G.Q. Gallo
479 Vito Thomaselli
480 Shawn Cook
481 Mikal Adryan
482 Don Basher
483 Sal Thomaselli
484 Boomer Payne
485 Johnny Graham
486 Matt Riviera
487 Larry Huntley
488 Seth Shai
489 Kevin Knight
490 Horrowshow
491 Masacara Purpura
492 Brian Christopher
493 Wataru Inoue
494 Kamikaze Kid
495 Robert Anthony
496 Shawn Christopher
497 Phil Davis
498 Eddie Edwards
499 Sean Davis
500 Mike Paige

The full list of wrestlers in PWI Top 500.

[Heath Scumm]

Amazing ... I'm gonna study it! :ok:

[Big Sexy]

369 Kennichiro Arai - who made this? - this guy should be in the first 240 wrestlers :P

[Heath Scumm]

Who is this Mistico character ranked number 5? I've never heard of him!

Also, what did Atlantis do so important this year in CMLL to get in the Top 50?

And who are Tarzan Boy and Ikuto Jidaka? Never heard of those b*tches! How could they have been better than Finlay?

How come Chris Hero isn't anywhere? He was the Number 1 CZW guy in their feud with ROH ... Well, at least I got my boyz Super Dragon and Joker near the 200-300 mark so I'm good!

[Big Sexy]

^ 127 Chris Hero

he is in the first 150!!! God - he should have been less ranked than Kennichiro Arai

[deadprezuk]

I've known him from his WCW days ... I can't say I dislike him but I sure as hell didn't like him after WCW put the Hardcore Title on him although they had better alternatives in Hardcore Hak or Mikey Whipwreck ... back then, I didn't know much about ECW but I knew that these 2 guys came from that Extreme fed and I simply loved them the first moment I saw them step foot in a WCW ring ... I will always remember Sandman entering the WCW ring all covered in Barb Wire beating the crap out of Knobs and Bam Bam Bigelow ...

I guess the love I had for former ECW athletes coming to WCW was to large for me to still appreciate Finlay ...

Nowadays, I'm in the same constant state of mind, not linking or disliking Finlay ... although I appreciate his achievements and definitely believe he's worthy of a Top 20 spot in PWI or any other Wrestler Of The Year top, he's just not a personal favourite of mine for several reasons!

1. What exactly are your reasons?

2. Finlay > Sandman & Mikey Whipwreck. And has the hardcore title, the guy had his leg sliced open and was told he would be able to walk again. Yet he's back and as tough as he always was, and he busts his ass more than Sandman ever did.

[Dragon-sin]

''Who is this Mistico character ranked number 5? I've never heard of him!''

Mistico had a great year,he is said to be the next Rey Mysterio.TNA wanted him bad for the World X Cup ,but that never happened.I remember before the World X Cup ,Tenay telling Dave that they really want Mistico in this and they were talking to CMLL but ,as he said,its hard to work something out with CMLL .I have only seen a few matches in CMLL with this guy and he is really good.

115 Akebono .... 142 Senshi/Low-Ki - This is not right...

[Heath Scumm]

I've tried looking at some CMLL videos but I just find them hilarious with the spanish announcing and commentary and the trumpets in the background ... it looks and sounds like a circus act and me, as an ECW fan can't take much of that!

Well, I don't know much about Mystico but I watched him in a couple of youtube videos and he's really nothing extraordinary ... I'm really disapointed!

@deadprezuk
Well, I judge a wrestler after several criterias ... I'm gonna try to put these into words although it's more of a mix than a number of things ...

1. First off, I have to like his gimmick and overall appearence that should be complemented by his mike skills and overall attitude ... I have to identify to the wrestler ... always enjoyed no-nonsense metalhead wrestlers and both Sandman and Mikey fit that category ... Although Mikey didn't draw my attention at first as I haven't watched any of his ECW work then, he became a favourite of mine after a series of matches in the Hardcore Division and especially one against (if I remember correctly :rolleyes: ) Lash LeRoux ... I was like, wow!, this guy can mix cruiserweight action with Hardcore weapons ... haven't seen guys like RVD or Sabu untill then because nobody could see ECW outside the US so that was a big deal for me! So those 2 guys became 2 of my favourites alongside Raven and his flock who I was obsessed about ... during WCW days I've mostly enjoyed midcard matches rather than the Main Events and couldn't know why ... after the 2000 I started exploring and realised that the reason for this was that I was an ECW fan trapped in seing WCW against my will :P ...

Finlay was no beer-bashing metalhead, he hadn't that "hardcore feel" to him ... that was not what Hardcore was about in my mind then ... I was stuck on the fact that guys like The Sandman, Whipwreck, Raven, Bam Bam or people like these should be in the Hardcore Division, not people like Finlay, Regal or Dave Taylor ... I always thought the TV Title was more suitable for them ...

2. I have to like his wrestling moves, I love spots and hate technical wrestling and long brawling outside the ring ... Finlay was a brawler with amazing technical skills so basicly he was the type of wrestler I didn't quite enjoy ... I wanted high-impact moves that the Revolution members did, highflying like the cruiserweights did, extreme moves using weapons like the extremists did ... Finlay wasn't anywhere near those guys style-wise so I didn't care much about him ... I was one of the few people that actually thought Regal vs Finlay in that parking lot was a waste of time and to this day I find that match boring and not extraordinary in any way

3. the guy has to make me feel simpathy for him when he's getting hurt ... I don't know what they have to do but some wrestlers do it for me and some don't ... for example I've always felt simpathy for guys like Jeff hardy or CZW's Joker but never could feel simpathy for a guy like HBK no matter how hard he was getting beaten up or bleeding ... I don't know why, maybe it's the way they sell moves or something but I just don't feel simpathy for Finlay no matter how hard he gets beaten up or works in the ring ... it's hard to explain, I can't even explain it myself but there's just something that gets me hyped or it doesn't get me hyped about a certain move or a certain bump and it never happened during Finlay matches!

[deadprezuk]

^^^ So you're basically saying you like a garbage wrestler over a real wrestler. That doesn't surprise me.

Guys like Joker & Hardy get over for putting their bodys through stupid stunts. Anyone can do that, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out. You say in your column that Joker can deliver strong style wrestling when really it isn't strong style at all. Being stiff is not strong style theres a big difference. And the fact is that the way they sell and the way alot of CZW guys sell is not good. If anything they over-exaggerate it to the point of stupidity and it just looks dumb. I mean look at Sonjay Dutt, everytime I see him take a canadian destroyer or some high impact move he oversells it. I mean the canadian destroyer is a load of sh** anyway but if you're gonna take it at least take it properly. And to say that HBK in your opinion can't sell as good as Hardy or Joker is absurd. Fact is guys like HBK & finlay don't need to be put through a table or something to that effect to make it look like they're getting beaten up. That's where the real skill lies.

Also you love spots and claim they're wrestling moves. That makes no sense whatsoever. Jumping off a ladder or using a table or a singapore cane is not wrestling pal any which way you look at it. Anyone can do that. Wrestling takes skill, finesse & toughness. Using a weapon requires two hands and no brain.

Plus if you really knew what ECW was about you would know that it wasn't built on the hardcore garbage wrestling that CZW trys to market themselves on. It was about progression and bringing the sport of wrestling back to the industry at a time when sports entertainment was running the show. It pushed the boundarys of taste with regards to storylines and feuds.

Also I think you misunderstand exactly why Finlay was the Hardcore champ in WCW. It was nothing to do with having alternatives that were knowon for their hardcore background. Its the fact that Finlay could have a good match with anyone of any style in the alotted TV time that was given to them. If you gave that to Sandman or Whipwreck they would be able to hack it. The only reason Sandman's matches were any good in ECW was because of who he was working with. He isn't and wasn't a ring general, not like Finlay who could call a match on the fly and make it look brutal as hell even though he was safe as house when it came to wrestling. I guarantee you put Joker in a ring with Finlay and he would look ten times better in that one match than he would in his whole career up until now.

[Heath Scumm]

First of all, I have no idea where we could move this discussion because you "attack" my points from so many directions I don't know where this truly fits ... So I'm a leave it here for now ...

Well, I do like garbage wrestlers instead of mat technicians but at least I have the decency to admit it :D ... that doesn't make it right or wrong, it's just about personal taste and oppinion ... I never said Joker or Hardy sell better than HBK or Finlay, I am completely aware that HBK sells better than both those guys but I just don't feel simpathy for him since I do not believe the shots he takes really hurt ... I've seen both him and Triple H. wrestle with absolutely no in-ring psychology more times than I've seen jack Evans pull a corkscrew and that's why I'm not impressed by his selling anymore ... a recent example of that is the match that pitted DX against the Mc Mahon's which was aweful and the ending was horrid with HHH. rubbing the outside and in-ring floor crawling for half an hour only for both him and HBK to come back like they weren't hurt at all to end the match in less than 10 seconds ...

Back to Joker, he's Strong Style, I've seen him work in Chikara and he does no Hardcore there ... a match between him and Low Ki would be simply amazing for me to see ...

I know what ECW was about ... let's just leave it to that ...

I liked Sandman not as much as a wrestler but as a character, just as i like Raven ... Raven is not my favourite wrestler but he is my favourite character so that makes him my Favourite overall ...

I am aware that Finlay can do any style of wrestling, I just don't like him character-wise as I consider him to be nothing more than a stereotype (ofcourse, that's not his fault but I simply don't care), don't like his wrestling style and he can't draw simpathy out of me ... I do not dislike him but I do not like him either ... I'm like : "Well, Finlay is next ... meh ... whatever!"

[deadprezuk]

First off its not attacking, its called debating theres a difference.

Misawa = Strong Style, Kobashi = Strong Style, Taue = Strong Style.
Joker & Low Ki = Not strong style, there just stiff and being stiff is not strong style.

As for Triple H & HBK I'm sorry but the fact is they get up to 8 minutes if that on a match. Its not like the indys where you get 20 minutes plus and even then theres no pyschology to it. PPVs are where the pyschology comes into play because thats what ey are building to. The story is built up over weeks with an incident here and an incident there until the PPV where it all comes to a conclusion. Triple H having no pyschology. . . please, Batista was put over to the heavens by Triple H and because of that he is mega over with the crowd to this day. No he is losing his steam which proves how good Triple H is. And quite frankly alot of the top workers that have been in the business rate Triple H as one of the best around. Race, Flair, Austin, Funk, Undertaker the list goes on.

[Heath Scumm]

The event I'm talking about with HHH and HBK gettin' beaten up for half an hour only to come back and act like they weren't hurt at all and win it in less than 10 seconds happened at SummerSlam PPV ... both HBK and HHH had good matches but they've had loads of sh*tty matches as well, and recently I mostly see sh*tty matches out of the 2 when it comes to properly selling and actually making me think they get hurt after being slammed through a table or getting hit with objects ...

The Strong Style discussion was moved to the PURO Topic!

[Heath Scumm]

Obsessed With Wrestling Continues their "The First Ever OWW, fuck PWI, 100 Discussion Thread" ... so far they've done the Top 10

1. Samoa Joe
2. Bryan Danielson
3. Edge
4. Rey Mysterio Jr.
5. Jun Akiyama
6. Booker T
7. Homicide
8. Nigel McGuinness
9. Satoshi Kojima
10. Austin Aries

[Heath Scumm]

OWW has decided the Top 15 so far, still going!

1. Samoa Joe
2. Bryan Danielson
3. Edge
4. Rey Mysterio Jr.
5. Jun Akiyama
6. Booker T
7. Homicide
8. Nigel McGuinness
9. Satoshi Kojima
10. Austin Aries
11. Fit Finlay
12. KENTA
13. Kurt Angle
14. Roderick Strong
15. Kenta Kobashi
16. John Cena

[Heath Scumm]

After a long debate, Kenta Kobashi was placed in front of Cena and I was the only one there supporting Cena and that just didn't feel right so I had to let go!

[Heath Scumm]

1. Samoa Joe
2. Bryan Danielson
3. Rey Mysterio Jr.
4. Edge
5. Jun Akiayama
6. Booker T
7. Homicide
8. Nigel McGuinness
9. Satoshi Kojima
10. Austin Aries
11. Fit Finlay
12. KENTA
13. Kurt Angle
14. Roderick Stong
15. Kenta Kobashi
16. John Cena
17. Chris Hero
18. Naomichi Marufuji
19. CM Punk
20. CIMA

The Top 20 so far ... The debate is going strong and it is quite fun ... I'm learning some new things, too :P ... As you can see we have enough Puro wrestlers for everyone :D

[Heath Scumm]

The debate keeps on going, I really can't seem to get enough votes for my boy Jack evans to get him into this top ... I really do believe he's done great in Dragon gate in the past year and he's the most emproved wrestler this year but, meh ... most smarks on OWW are ROH fans so you know they call him a "spot monkey" and sh*t like that ...

1. Samoa Joe
2. Bryan Danielson
3. Rey Mysterio Jr.
4. Edge
5. Jun Akiayama
6. Booker T
7. Homicide
8. Nigel McGuinness
9. Satoshi Kojima
10. Austin Aries
11. Fit Finlay
12. KENTA
13. Kurt Angle
14. Roderick Stong
15. Kenta Kobashi
16. John Cena
17. Chris Hero
18. Naomichi Marufuji
19. CM Punk
20. CIMA
21. Rob Van Dam
22. Low Ki
23. Chris Benoit
24. Cristopher Daniels
25. Takashi Sugiura

[Dragon-sin]

You do know that Jack Evans wrestles in ROH right? Why would the ROH fans bury Jack?

What in the hell has Jack Evans done all this year? He won 0 titles,involved in 0 big matches , he did nothing to improve his CV as a wrestler! I can pretty much look at the top 25 and tell you something great about each wrestler(that they did tihs year),or at least something better than what Jack has done all year !

[Heath Scumm]

Well, first of all, ROH fans seem to resent Jack Evans for some reason ... I would say that it's because of his fast-paced high-flying spots with "no build-up to them" ... meh ... whatever ...

In my oppinion, in a pre-determined end result sport such as pro-wrestling, the number of victories or titles doesn't mean that much ... The number of "big matches" doesn't mean that much either ... IMO, the way the wrestler performs inside the ring is what really matters, the way he sells the moves and the way he executes the moves is what matters ...

And Jack did improve bigtime, although he was a great seller, just look at some of his matches from Japan (youtube rulz! :ok: ), and he even has that "in-ring psychology"/story-telling thing going for him ... He worked so hard, his moves look more like wrestling and less like gymnastics, well, what else can you ask out of this guy?

[snotsnit]

GO JACK! He has been in quite a few good matches this year.

[deadprezuk]

Well, first of all, ROH fans seem to resent Jack Evans for some reason ... I would say that it's because of his fast-paced high-flying spots with "no build-up to them" ... meh ... whatever ...

In my oppinion, in a pre-determined end result sport such as pro-wrestling, the number of victories or titles doesn't mean that much ... The number of "big matches" doesn't mean that much either ... IMO, the way the wrestler performs inside the ring is what really matters, the way he sells the moves and the way he executes the moves is what matters ...

And Jack did improve bigtime, although he was a great seller, just look at some of his matches from Japan (youtube rulz! :ok: ), and he even has that "in-ring psychology"/story-telling thing going for him ... He worked so hard, his moves look more like wrestling and less like gymnastics, well, what else can you ask out of this guy?

Jack Evans is so overrated. He totally oversells evrything to the point where it becomes stupid. He jumps around making no sense of what he trys to do which in turn makes his matches look silly not to mention sloppy.

He has no psychology whatsoever, and the only times he works well in the ring is when he is paired up with someone who knows what thet're doing or if it is a comedy match whereby psychology is not a factor.

[Heath Scumm]

Did you see his recent matches in Dragon Gate?

Even before, there were never any claims that Jack wasn't selling, there were claims that he had no psychology and he did most big spots at the beginning of the match pushing the envelop higher and higher and making the other "experienced" ROH wrestlers look bad cuz they were trying to do storytelling ...

Why is that? Because guys like Am Drag like to take it easy and get a match to the 60 minute limit mostly crawling on the mat pretending they're "technical" ... Jack gives it his best for 6-10 minutes and always puts his life in jeopardy to entertain the fans ... Call him a "spotmonkey", I don't care ... this guy is constantly emproving and he even got to slow down only to make other wrestlers look good ...

IMO, the most entertaining matches Am Drag had were against him when he twisted Evans like never seen before ... I know I'm going to far with this and maybe saying something indecent here (I'm just only trying to start debates :P ) but is it possible that Evans actually carried Dragon in their first ROH encounter yet you ROH marks are 2 proud of your champion to admit it?

Well, if you think he oversells, I would show you the things he did in CZW ... you can never oversell those moves! Why? Because the moves he takes are so f'n vicious you'd think they could kill him every single time ...

[Heath Scumm]

1. Samoa Joe
2. Bryan Danielson
3. Rey Mysterio Jr.
4. Edge
5. Jun Akiayama
6. Booker T
7. Homicide
8. Nigel McGuinness
9. Satoshi Kojima
10. Austin Aries
11. Fit Finlay
12. KENTA
13. Kurt Angle
14. Roderick Stong
15. Kenta Kobashi
16. John Cena
17. Chris Hero
18. Naomichi Marufuji
19. CM Punk
20. CIMA
21. Rob Van Dam
22. Low Ki
23. Chris Benoit
24. Cristopher Daniels
25. Takashi Sugiura
26. James Gibson
27. Jimmy Rave
28. Hiroshi Tanahashi
29. Ruckus
30. Alex Shelley
31. Jack Evans

After long lasting debates I managed to get Jack Evans in there! ;)

[Raven effect]

How the hell is CM Punk behind John Cena? And more to the point, how the fuck is he in the top 100?

[Heath Scumm]

Well, some random things posted by me concerning this on another forum ... let's try not ot be haters here and be objective about it ...

John Cena - Although smart fans seem to hate him due to his moronic chain gang fans, you cannot deny he was pushed like crazy and really put asses is seats ... in my book, he's a Number 6 without a shadow of a doubt!


One thing I do not understand ... why don't you people see John Cena a Top 10 guy? He had a great year as the fans really seem to respond at him ... the ECW fans hate him, which is good too ... love him or hate him, he's getting acknowledged bigtime and that's all that matters!

HitScum, the reason nobody has but Cena in the top 10 is because this whole thread is about fixing the problem: that Cena is #1 on the PWI 500. Cena's the antagonist, nobody's putting him on here...


And my reply was ...

Well, than let's just take him off the Top 100 just because we hate his ass and we ain't able to admit the fact that he's one of the top guys out there that sells a sh*t loads of merchandise and actually puts asses in seats which IMO is what a wrestler should actually do!

"I don't see what Kurt Angle and John CEna did that was sooo special."

Have you watched WWE lately?

I say put Cena in front of Strong as he actually puts asses in seats ...


For a couple of weeks I've been rambling about Cena's acomplishments ... this is not about personal preferences, it's about the thing that Cena is one of the most important wrestlers in the industry right now and his legacy cannot be denied! Don't take me for a Cena fan cuz I'm obviously not, just be objective about it!